Curse

Tellani Artini · Jun 25, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Here's an assortment of PvP builds that utilize a pet. The first one is tried and tested, and the others are mostly theoretical.

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Caster Dominator
R/*
Beast Mastery 15 (12 + superior rune)
Marksmanship 12 (10 + minor rune + archer's mask)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)

Debilitating Shot
Pin Down
Ferocious Strike {Elite}
Disrupting Lunge
Call of Haste
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
1 extra slot, suggestions: Bestial Lunge, Melandru's Assault, Scavenger Strike, Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Hunter's Shot, Quickening Zephyr, just about any other pet attack

Cripple your target, engage call of haste, and repeat ferocious strike and debilitating shot as often as possible. If you ever have to break your debilitation chain, toss in some disrupting lunge for a chance to interrupt the spells that sneak through.
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Screaming Ranger (untested)
R/W
Beast Mastery 13 (9 + superior rune + tamer's mask)
Marksmanship 12 (11 + minor rune)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)
Tactics 8

Penetrating Shot
"Watch Yourself!"
Ferocious Strike {Elite}
Otyugh's Cry
Call of Haste
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
1 extra slot, suggestions: "Shields Up!", "Fear Me!", Debilitating Shot, Pin Down, Hunter's Shot, Predatory Season, Maiming Strike, Frenzy, Flurry, Bonetti's Defense

Stand near teammates and keep "Watch Yourself!" and Call of Haste up at all times, fed by Ferocious Strike and bow attacks. Use the energy to fire a Penetrating Shot every other attack. Otyugh's Cry will give all animals in the area +20 armor to match ("Watch Yourself!" only affects party members, not all allies, if the GWG description is correct).
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R/Mo
Stealth Protector (untested)
Beast Mastery 13 (9 + superior rune + tamer's mask)
Marksmanship 12 (11 + minor rune)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)
Protection Prayers 8

Pin Down
Remove Hex
Life Bond
Draw Conditions
Ferocious Strike {Elite}
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
1 extra slot, suggestions: Ressurect, Aegis, Shielding Hands, Convert Hexes, Mend Ailment, Guardian, Hunter's Shot, Call of Protection, Otyugh's Cry, Predator's Pounce

Maintain Life Bond on two allies. Cripple your target. With the energy gained from Ferocious Strike, use Draw Conditions and Remove Hex on allies. Be sure to leave yourself 3 energy to use another Ferocious Strike. If your pet's target kites and isn't crippled, switch targets. If your pet dies, break one or both life bonds until you can get it back up.
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R/W
Enchantment Punisher (untested)
Beast Mastery 12 (8 + superior rune + tamer's mask)
Marksmanship 12 (11 + minor rune)
Wilderness Survival 10 (9 + minor rune)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)

Flurry
Melandru's Arrows {Elite}
Melandru's Assault
Call of Haste
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Favorable Winds
1 extra slot, suggestions: Hunter's Shot, Disrupting Lunge, Distracting Shot, Barbed Trap, Flame Trap, Serpent's Quickness, Antidote Signet, Dual Shot, Precision Shot, Pin Down, Maiming Strike

Lay Favorable Winds. Engage Melandru's Arrows and find an enchanted target (elementalists are great candidates). Engage Flurry and watch their health drop in large increments. Use Melandru's Assault for AoE damage.
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Perhaps more to come later.

Challenge: design a pet build using enchantments to maximize your pet's damage. Post it here.

UsagiNoSenshi · Jun 25, 2005, 03:49 AM // 03:49

heh you are officially my new favorite person. I find in pvp beastmasters are pretty good at taking out monks, just cripple them and send your pet in since no one will think to stop it as it runs by, let the pet inflict damage, the use distracting shot when the monk tries to heal. It works, but i suck at pvp real bad so i'm still trying to perfect a build. Plus i need to get Ferocious Strike still.

ICURADik · Jun 26, 2005, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

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Caster Dominator
R/*
Beast Mastery 15 (12 + superior rune)
Marksmanship 12 (10 + minor rune + archer's mask)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)

======
Screaming Ranger (untested)
R/W
Beast Mastery 13 (9 + superior rune + tamer's mask)
Marksmanship 12 (11 + minor rune)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)
Tactics 8

======
R/Mo
Stealth Protector (untested)
Beast Mastery 13 (9 + superior rune + tamer's mask)
Marksmanship 12 (11 + minor rune)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)
Protection Prayers 8

======
R/W
Enchantment Punisher (untested)
Beast Mastery 12 (8 + superior rune + tamer's mask)
Marksmanship 12 (11 + minor rune)
Wilderness Survival 10 (9 + minor rune)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)

What's up with using the mask on lower level attributes? To get the most benefit per attribute point you want to use the mask on your absolute highest attribute. The same is true with major and superior runes.

Example 1: In the first build if you drop one from Beast Mastery and move the mask to Beast Mastery, then add one point to Expertise, you effectively gain 4 attribute points for free.

Example 2: If you drop one from Marks and add one to Beast Mastery you gain 3 points.

Example 3: Same as example 2

Example 4: 10/9 with swapped mask nets the same total and saves 5 points.

Tellani Artini · Jun 26, 2005, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICURADik

What's up with using the mask on lower level attributes? To get the most benefit per attribute point you want to use the mask on your absolute highest attribute. The same is true with major and superior runes.

Because I'm sloppy. Where do you think I should put those 4 points or so?

ComMan · Jun 26, 2005, 07:49 AM // 07:49

This is just begs for naysaying.

For one thing, all of these builds are carrying Charm, Comfrot, Call of Haste, and most of them are carrying Ferocious Strike. That leaves you only 4 skills to work with, as well as depriving you of an elite. Is pet damage really worth limiting yourself that much?

On specific builds:

Screaming Ranger seems like a theme build pure and simple. I really fail to see what this build would do aside form annoy people with all the speech bubbles. If you really want to play a shout build I guess, but in the end you're pretty much a bad protection monk.

Enchantment Punisher really depends on what the enchantment is. A lot of players will be able to just take Melandu's Arrows and go on with their day. You also run the risk of the other team using Nature's Renewal and totally defeating your build (or just not running enchantments).

Caster Dominator is not very dominating. Disrupting Lunge might be a bit better than Distracting Shot (not by much), but just that and Debilitating Shot aren't going to shut anything down. This is one of many build archtypes were pets just eff you because you won't have enough slots to be effective at your job.

Edit: now that I think about it, if you put Concussion Shot and Tiger's Fury in your lineup (and you can actually hit stuff with it) this build could be really really annoying, since both your bow attacks (boosted by Tiger's Fury) and your pet attacks (boosted by Call of Hate) would cause interrupt.

Stealth Protector is a decent idea, but doesn't do anything that you couldn't do with Marksman's Wager and no pet.

Pets are better than most people (myself included) usually give them credit for, but to actually make them useful in PvP is borderline impossible. They take too make skill slots to be just OK. In all honesty, the best Beast Mastery builds I've seen in Tombs carry just Fertile Season and Symbyosis. Some might bring along Tiger's Fury as a novelty.

UsagiNoSenshi · Jun 27, 2005, 03:14 AM // 03:14

you see that's the fun part, doing it beacuse people say you can't. You say it's borderline impossible i say i'll find a way XP no use in playing the same old builds. If you can win HoH with one of these builds i say it's worth something.

ComMan · Jun 27, 2005, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Most Tombs builds won't even have you if you've got a pet.

Pets don't provide anything really special for the cost. 4 skill slots, a ton of attribute points, and the risk of having your skills disabled for what? For a bit of extra DPS that you have to babysit?

UsagiNoSenshi · Jun 27, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

well you don't think it's special don't try it then. If i've said it once i've said it a million times, i will never get rid of my pet. I like the way my pet build works, that's good enough for me.

Tellani Artini · Jun 27, 2005, 03:55 AM // 03:55

What else would I put in any of those builds? I don't believe in rangers always being the "jack of all trades." Using a pet forces you to go minimalist on your own skills, and you begin to see which skills you really need and which you don't. I never find myself lacking with the first build, though I do swap in distracting shot for disrupting lunge these days. All the others I'll admit are totally gimmicky, except maybe the protector.

The whole point of the caster dominator, the only tested one, is to bring both energy draining and damage to the table. You have to play it to appreciate how much damage it brings. It's even more effective due to the metagame conditions. People are more likely to know what chaos storm does than they are to know what ferocious strike does.

By using ferocious strike instead of marksman's wager, you aren't gimping your DPS by eliminating preparations and you don't lose anything when you miss.

If A.Net fixes the ability of pets to hit moving targets, pin down and call of haste will no longer be necessary for pet builds.

tmkhufu · Jun 27, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsagiNoSenshi

heh you are officially my new favorite person. I find in pvp beastmasters are pretty good at taking out monks, just cripple them and send your pet in since no one will think to stop it as it runs by, let the pet inflict damage, the use distracting shot when the monk tries to heal. It works, but i suck at pvp real bad so i'm still trying to perfect a build. Plus i need to get Ferocious Strike still.

you want to interrupt a 1 second or less heal? ... good luck doing that consistently

Neo-LD · Jun 27, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Wait, you are investing all those point in B.M. with no tigers fury? Sure, it disables pet attacks, but only for 5 seconds, and you should use those befire tigers fury anyways. Heres one that I use when me and my friend are arena-ing together:

11+3 Expertise
10+2 Marksmanship
10+1 B.M.

Bestial Pounce
Distracting Shot
Penetrating Shot
Tigers Fury
Oath Shot (E)
Throw Dirt
Revive Animal
Charm Animal

I guess you could call this a type of caster-dominator. You and your pet focus down on a monk, mesmer, or ele. Tigers Fury and Penetrating for extra damage. Distracting Shot and Bestial Pounce for disrupting. I was thought about putting in punishing instead of oath, just because its the best ranger elite ever, but I think oath shot goes better with the build, since it recharges distracting, bestial pounce, throw dirt, and revive animal, and can counter-act the disabling drawback of tigers fury.

UsagiNoSenshi · Jun 27, 2005, 08:05 PM // 20:05

tigers fury disables pet skills for 5 seconds was it? that's why none of us use it.

"you want to interrupt a 1 second or less heal? ... good luck doing that consistently"

i can kill a healer monk in about 15 sec, plus the spell is disabled for a time. and they ususally ignore the giant chicken that's attacking them till it's too late.

Neo-LD · Jun 28, 2005, 02:37 AM // 02:37

5 seconds isnt that much, especially if it means using the best skill B.. has to offer. If you really want, you can cast it BEFORE T.F., or recharge it using oath shot.

Another pet build worth experimenting with would be one using ferocous strike, quickening zephyr, and debilitating shot. With Zephyr, Ferocious cools down in 4 seconds, debil shot in 3. Ferocious basically gives you enough energy to infinetly pour in the Dibil Shots, to be fired off on approxamately every other arrow. Use pentrating and T.F. for damage. Only weakness is that it uses four attributes.

ComMan · Jun 28, 2005, 03:56 AM // 03:56

I don't know what you're talking about Usagi, Tiger's Fury is one of the only Beast Mastey skills that commonly used. Even I put 4 points into BM and carry that one.

UsagiNoSenshi · Jun 28, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35

you also don't play with a pet.

I see no need to use it and Tellani didn't include it either.

and Neo-LD i just noticed you don't have comfort animal in that build.

ICURADik · Jun 28, 2005, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

Because I'm sloppy. Where do you think I should put those 4 points or so?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

======
Caster Dominator
R/*
Beast Mastery 15 (12 + superior rune)
Marksmanship 12 (10 + minor rune + archer's mask)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)

======
Screaming Ranger (untested)
R/W
Beast Mastery 13 (9 + superior rune + tamer's mask)
Marksmanship 12 (11 + minor rune)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)
Tactics 8

======
R/Mo
Stealth Protector (untested)
Beast Mastery 13 (9 + superior rune + tamer's mask)
Marksmanship 12 (11 + minor rune)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)
Protection Prayers 8

======
R/W
Enchantment Punisher (untested)
Beast Mastery 12 (8 + superior rune + tamer's mask)
Marksmanship 12 (11 + minor rune)
Wilderness Survival 10 (9 + minor rune)
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)

I'm not sure where you should put the extra points. In the first build you should have a total of 9 left over now. If you willing to sacrifice 1 in Marks you can gain two in expertise, which seems like a fair trade considering your reliance on the pet for actual damage. 11/10/10 is probably the best point distribution in the game, period.

Edit: Expertise hits a break point for Debilitating at 12. If you feel like running a major rune, and dont mind the 50 hp loss.

ComMan · Jun 28, 2005, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsagiNoSenshi

you also don't play with a pet.

I see no need to use it and Tellani didn't include it either.

That's true, and because I don't play with a pet I have 4 skill slots and 97 +/- attribute points that you don't.

It's fine if you don't feel the need to use it, but 99% of the Ranger community does. Oddly, we don't feel the need for pets.

Kishin · Jun 28, 2005, 06:47 AM // 06:47

People don't feel the need for pets because they expect to put 0 points in Beastmastery, devote no skill slots to pet skills, and then cry when Gimpy McWolf their pet dies in one hit to a Warrior. Obviously your pet will suck then, because you haven't bothered investing anything in it. Beastmastery requires points like everything else. People also have a great unwillingness to allow their pet to be the dominant force in their offense, rather than themselves. After all, where's the glory in that?

Furthermore, people think that skill slots spent on a pet are 'wasted'. If they were wasted, they wouldn't be doing anything at all. This is not true, as the pet skills do serve a function, and can be employed quite effectively. For one, they're equivalent to every Ranger conditioning skill, but cost less and have bonus damage added to them. Second of all, using Disrupting Lunge and Bestial Pounce, you have two quick interrupts available. Thirdly, your pet attacks much faster than your bow, and thus probably does more damage.

You talk like the 4 skill slots devoted to a pet and those "+/- 97 attribute points" disappear and provide nothing to show for it. You're wrong.

Myodato · Jun 28, 2005, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Caster Catcher (work in progress)
R/W
Beast Mastery 14 (10 + superior rune + tamer's mask)
Hammer Mastery 12
Expertise 9 (8 + minor rune)

Backbreaker [E]
Flurry
Disrupting Lunge
Maiming Strike
Call of Haste
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Lightning Reflexes

Pick a caster, interrupt and knockdown as you please. If they run, pet catches and cripples, then you start again

This is still a work in progress, but is a rough estimate of the final build I'm working towards (lvl 13 atm). There are other skills which could go in here, most of which have been mentioned in previous posts. Hardest choice is whether to go for the 4 sec knockdown of Backbreaker, or combine Ferocious Strike[E] and Hammer Bash. Wild Blow (auto-crit) also works very nicely with a single adrenal skill.

Neo-LD · Jun 28, 2005, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsagiNoSenshi

and Neo-LD i just noticed you don't have comfort animal in that build.

Revive animal > comfort animal.

Now there are people who play with TF, and people who dont because it disables their pet attacks (though it shouldnt). Coming from a person who uses both, Im telling you that the 5 second disable is not that bad. Use your pet attacks before you activate TF. Most pet attacks are not THAT important, so they can wait for the 5 seconds to expire anyways. My personal favorite pet attack, bestial pounce, has a 15 second recharge, so activating TF in between is no issue for me.